Transcript

00:00:00 Jenna Phillips
WAT is up, Waterloo? Welcome to WAT's Sustainable? the official podcast of the University of Waterloo Sustainability Office. My name is Jenna and I am the host of this podcast episode. Today we will be exploring: WAT is plant-based eating? This is a special episode because we will have our very first guest on the podcast today. That guest is Nicole Pin, the Registered Dietitian for the University of Waterloo.
In this conversation with both Nicole Pin and Andrea Bale, who also works at the Sustainability Office with myself, we will explore the concept of plant-based eating some of the challenges that we recognise with plant-based eating, ways to navigate it, some tips for eating plant-based and more. If you are interested in learning more about plant-based eating, Nicole has provided many great resources which I have linked in the show notes. I also encourage you to check out the Sustainability Office’s food web page, which I have linked in the show notes, if you want to learn more about sustainable food systems. Also, make sure to follow us on Instagram and Twitter @UWsustainable to learn more about the sustainability tips and content that we share there. Without further ado, let's get on to the conversation with Nicole and Andrea.
00:01:13 Jenna 
Welcome to WAT’s Sustainable? the official podcast of the Sustainability Office. Today we are going to be having a conversation with our very first guest on the podcast, and I am so excited about this and I know the rest of us at the Sustainability Office are, as well. Our episode today, WAT is plant-based eating, is going to feature a guest who I think is very knowledgeable about the subject and has a close connection to the University. Why don't we give a little introduction now to our guest as well as the other Sustainability Office staff member who is on the call? So Nicole and Andrea, why don't you guys give a little introduction about yourselves?
00:01:53 Nicole Pin
Thank you so much Jenna for having me. My name is Nicole and I'm the Registered Dietitian with the University of Waterloo Food Service team. I've been in this role for the last two years and as part of the Food Services team I really work hard to help our team develop menus to work on all of our nutritional programming and putting out a lot of the nutrition content that you'll see on our media channels.
00:02:23 Andrea Bale
Awesome, I'm Andrea from the Sustainability Office. I am the Sustainability Engagement Coordinator and I've been in my role for just over three years, and I work on all the different engagement programmes and events to engage staff and students on sustainability. Nicole, I'm so excited to have you here. It's been so fantastic that Food Services brought you on board and I've seen so much amazing content and we've partnered a couple of times over the years already. Looking forward to many more and really looking forward to this conversation.
00:02:54 Nicole
Thank you so much. I'm really excited to be here.
00:02:58 Jenna
Thank you! So Nicole, why don't we get started right away? Why don’t you tell us a little bit about your plant-based journey, how you first learned about it and why you started promoting it, why it's important to you.
00:03:13 Nicole
Sure, so as a Dietitian I've kind of watched the plant-based eating trend grow throughout my career. It's always interesting to me to think back about what we were taught in school. You know, vegetarian diets and vegan diets and back then there weren't very many options even for vegetarians sometimes when you were kind of out of your home and out eating, and to just have observed how far we've really come with, you know from those two distinct groups to this whole realm of grey area and approaches that really promote plants and plant-based eating in a variety of ways.
I think it's so important to give people flexibility with their eating patterns and to make sure that people are knowledgeable about where their food is coming from and asking those questions. I think those elements of the plant-based eating trend have been wonderful to see.
00:04:07 Jenna
Thank you and how do you strive to incorporate plant-based eating into your own life?
00:04:12 Nicole
For me, I generally speaking just look for opportunities to add plants to meals. So whether it's I'm making spaghetti sauce and I put lentils in there for the protein, or I’m looking at ways to include nuts in a snack option. Trying new products is always a really fun thing. I don't aim to be 100% vegan or plant-based, but I think just taking those steps, exploring food in that sort of a way where you're really having a curious nature around it and finding ways to incorporate some of these foods that maybe we didn't always eat so much growing up. I can't ever remember my mom making a lentil Bolognese sauce when I was growing up, but now it's not something that's out of the question because we've continued to kind of explore and really work with flavours to incorporate some of these foods.
00:05:11 Andrea
I think that's such a good point you bring up, it doesn't have to be all or nothing, just having a little adventure here and there and trying new things is a really easy way to get started. I love that.
00:05:20 Jenna
Yeah agreed, and even for myself so I went vegetarian when I was finishing up high school – so almost five years ago now and I never thought that I would go vegan. And I'm not vegan, but I don't really like using those labels because I think it puts it almost a sort of pressure on yourself to live up to a certain standard. So if you say I'm 100% vegan, if a situation comes up, let's say you go to a restaurant and you think something is vegan, but it has some sort of animal product or animal based or by product in it, you might feel really guilty because you are connecting your identity to that specific term. Whereas I think if you look at it more with curiosity and you're less strict on yourself, it's much easier to manage or to eat more plant-based.
00:06:14 Nicole
Yeah I would totally agree with that and I think it's also a more inclusive approach. You know, we know that eating plants is really important for the environment as well and for our bodies, and if we want to make it something that everybody can get on board with then we can't be creating these black and white kind of silos. We need to make it something that's really approachable and functional for everyone and while there are lots of people who eat a wonderful diverse vegan diet and love it, that may not be for everyone. I think we have to recognise that that's okay, and it's also really, I think, valuable, to make that distinction for anyone who is thinking about, you know, trying more plant-based foods that you don't have to do it all at once. You don't have to do everything, you can, just you know, order the plant-based item on the menu to give it a shot. You don't have to be 100% plant-based and analysing all of the last little ingredients on a menu to make a positive impact on yourself or on the planet by eating more plants.
00:07:23 Jenna
Yeah, definitely. I love that answer and it actually leads into the next question I wanted to ask you, which is why do you think eating plant-based or at least eating less meat or less animal products in general is important? And what are the various ways that it's important?
00:07:41 Nicole
Yeah, so I I've touched on this a little bit. Obviously like I said, I don't think it's out of the realm of our general education to know that eating more plants and reducing animal products in our diet is helpful for ourselves, our bodies and the planet. I think people are really becoming more educated and conscious of their food choices, and as we gain that nutrition education, one of the key things people are gravitating towards is more plant-based foods. They are a great source of fibre, vitamins, minerals, a lot of times we can get these things with less packaging, right? I used to always say when I did grocery store tours in the produce section that “the healthiest foods for us have no labels.” Speaking about all of those fresh fruits and vegetables that you see that are displayed in such a beautiful array and they don't come in a box or package or a can. 
The other thing I think that plant-based eating offers is it sparks people to ask more questions about their food. If you're reading labels, if you're thinking about plant-based, then you're doing research, are looking online, and just that act of being more curious around where is my food coming from, how does it impact my body, how does it impact others, can turn into a really great conversation and even lead into other sustainable practises or beneficial practises for our world and our environment. Whether it's looking at Fair Trade or some of those other sorts of food options.
00:09:19 Andrea
I love that Nicole. I think in a lot of the programming we do like the Sustainability Certificate as a good example, I think that the key takeaway in all of those sessions is just for encouraging our participants to ask more questions. I think that's a really great way to put it, and I think that kind of naturally just leads you onto a more sustainable path overtime. Being inquisitive and asking questions.
00:09:48 Jenna
Yeah, I think so much of what Nicole just said aligns with what we tried to educate individuals on within the Sustainability Certificates session on sustainable food, so that's great.
00:10:01 Nicole
For sure, I think it all comes full circle and again when you're thinking about just the terminology you're using, I have noticed that the “plant-based” community tends to be very encouraging and they're very, you know, they've got a positive vibe going on for lack of a better term. You know, it's about sharing recipes, it's about sharing ideas, it's about that curiosity and questioning, which I absolutely love.
00:10:30 Jenna
I've seen that a lot in these Facebook groups that I'm in, so there's a bunch of Facebook groups for Canadian plant-based eaters, Ontario and then even locally in Waterloo and there's so many people just asking questions in the community, so willing to provide information or to help individuals out. Whether it's someone looking to incorporate a certain ingredient and they don't know how to do it, or they're looking for certain types of products in the community and they don't know where to get them, the community just seems really supportive and no matter what the reason is for someone eating more plant-based it, you can definitely tell there’s this community-wide encouragement to move towards plant-based eating for all the variety of benefits it can provide.
00:11:15 Jenna
Switching gears now to more not just what's important, but what might be some of the challenges with eating plant-based and this can be based on your professional experience or even your own personal experience and maybe both of you could provide some examples of some challenges you have personally faced when trying to eat just a plant-based meal or trying to eat more plant-based in general.
00:11:39 Nicole
For sure, I think the most common thing that I see is people taking too big of a step all at once. You know, completely flipping their diet overnight to be more plant-based and a lot of times when individuals make that big leap they may start to incorporate too many vegetables and not enough different types of proteins and fats. Maybe they're starting to miss some nutrients. We know that B12, omega 3s, iron, zinc, some of those nutrients are totally possible to get on a plant-based diet, but you have to be eating the right kind of combination of foods, so people just kind of taking away their main meat source of protein and not necessarily replacing it with the equivalent sees of beans and nuts and other plant-based option and just kind of eating the salad without the chicken, so to speak, or those types of patterns I've seen. At first thing maybe are okay, but after a week or week and a half their body starts to crave certain things, they find that it may not be sustainable long term long term, and that's usually a good indication that maybe you need to ask some questions, maybe talk to a Dietitian or someone who's had some experience in the plant-based realm to just make sure that you're getting everything in.
Another challenge that I have seen is people adopting a plant-based diet within a home that's not necessarily plant-based, and they're being that “wall” that comes up of meal times are completely separate or meals are completely separate. Or you know, people are finding it really frustrating figuring out which products to purchase because somebody wants a meat-based burger and somebody else wants a veggie burger or that sort of thing. So my suggestion usually in that instance is not making fully separate meals, but making it something that is either customizable for everyone or that everyone can partake in. For example, on burger night or pizza night you may just have all the toppings out and everybody can kind of pick and choose what toppings they want on their pizza so that you know someone who's plant-based can choose more of the plant-based toppings. That doesn't mean that pepperoni doesn't have to be there for someone who wants to put pepperoni on their pizza. Similarly, you could make like a plant-based meat dish that could also double as a side dish. So if you made like a lentil and rice casserole you could maybe have some grilled chicken on the side so that it was still maybe a complete meal for someone who didn't want to choose the meat protein option, but you're still allowing for that social experience in that family mealtime.
I’d say there's probably one more thing that I noticed that is a big challenge and I think this is a challenge for everyone, particularly at first is figuring out the whole label reading. There are these weird ingredients, but don't quite sound like they're an animal product, but maybe there an animal product in something, and it can be really challenging just to decipher labels on a regular basis. When you're adding on to that, trying to figure out is this vegetarian or vegan, it makes it that much more complicated.
00:15:06 Andrea
Those are all really great examples, Nicole. I really resonated with the second one you talked about with family mealtime. Certainly, I think in my family, I don't know if it's a cultural thing, I think a lot of times meat based diets there is, you know, status, culture,  all these other factors that are kind of interwoven with that whether or not we're aware of them. There's been members of my family and my extended family and in laws that are perhaps a little more resistant to trying plant-based options, or if we would bring a plant-based burger kind of stick their nose up and not even want to have anything to do with it, but I think overtime just more exposure for one has been really helpful and then even just encouraging them to try it. And you know you don't have to have a totally plant-based burger - you don't need to replace your burger with this, but just have a bite and see if you like it. And I think that everyone in my family has been really pleasantly surprised. I think having those conversations has been really helpful. I really like your idea of pizza night and just having all the options available for everyone, so it's kind of a choose your own adventure, but no one's being shamed one way or the other and there's not that big divide like you say in the middle of the table. Totally separate meals. That really resonated with me.
00:16:30 Nicole
Yeah, I find that works for so many different, like whether it's an allergy or picky eaters, it just works for so many things. We all have our own individual food preferences or reasons for eating a certain way. So many meals can be fully customizable: pizza, tacos, burgers, wraps, burritos, omelettes, like half the meals we eat we can make together and customizer. So why not get everyone involved?
00:17:02 Andrea
Yeah, absolutely. Jenna I’m going to flip the question back to you. I know that you live with roommates right now. Are your roommates also plant-based? You know not totally vegan, but they eat a lot of plant-based meals too?
00:17:18 Jenna
So one of my roommates is vegetarian and the other ones are not. So it's definitely an interesting dynamic. Having two plant-based eaters in the house and two non plant-based eaters. However, the ones who eat meat are quite open to trying out the dishes that we make. So for instance my partner and I currently live together and he loves to cook plant-based as well. So whenever we have any cooking nights together, if we make dinner together, it's always plant-based just so I'm able to enjoy it, or he'll make a meat option on the side or even let's say if we make pasta and we make a red sauce and then we have our own separate - I have veggie crumble and he is a ground meat or something like that, so we are able to customise it that way. 
I've actually wanted to bring up my roommates as well just based on the challenges that Nicole mentioned because the first point you brought up about not knowing how to I would say properly incorporate a plant-based lifestyle and specifically missing out on certain nutrients. That's something I've noticed with my roommates and other people I know like my friends especially. They seem to be a lot of people in my residence in first year who wanted to go more plant-based because they were in Environment programmes and so they knew that eating less meat could help the environment. But they didn't recognise that they needed to substitute the meat for something else to make sure that they were getting their B vitamins and their protein and everything like that. And they were dealing with feeling lethargic and other health side effects because they weren't substituting those essential nutrients. And so that's something that I recognise is really important and whenever I'm cooking with my roommates or if my roommates are trying to eat more plant-based, I always be like, oh, just, you know, make sure have some sort of the essential nutrients here, that you are incorporating this and you're making a well-balanced meal or snack or whatever it may be so toy eat this plant-based meal, but you're also supporting your body in the same way.
I also wanted to speak of my home, so with my family members, I'm the only plant-based eater within the house and that's definitely would be a challenge when I would go home, especially with the first time I went home after first year. I had been living in a residence, and so I was only really responsible for my own food and eating myself. But then when I was going back to the family home and we were eating meals together and my parents were both eating meat, it was really hard for us I think to find that balance between making a dish that could be catered to everybody while making sure we are having a well-balanced meal. So those are all great challenges I think you both brought up and they can be difficult to navigate, but I think just bringing in those techniques like making customizable meals and being curious and making meals that everybody will enjoy really great ways to get around them.
00:20:13 Andrea
Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of family, I think it's a challenge that we've overcome so I don't want to highlight it as a challenge, but a couple of years ago I was diagnosed as celiac and so when that was layered on top of wanting to eat more plant-based, I think my parents both kind of just freaked out and what am I actually going to feed you? And it really doesn't have to be that difficult. I think when you break it down but just having those labels feels a little bit intimidating or overwhelming. I think we've totally gotten past that now, and it's really not that difficult. A lot of foods that are plant-based are also gluten free if you're eating whole foods, and so it's a challenge that we've overcome, but I think definitely part of the conversation to dietary restrictions or other allergies when you layer them with plant-based can feel like it's much more of a challenge than it actually is.
00:21:12 Nicole
Yeah, for sure. I've definitely seen that, and I think particularly when it comes to gatherings or family meals or anything like that, or even going to restaurant is just for having that conversation. As you mentioned Andrea, there are lots of foods that you can eat even if you have a restriction and you’re plant-based. It's just about making sure that other people know what kinds of foods you can eat so you know talking about the menu are talking about the kinds of foods that fit or what things to look out for in particular. And maybe even as Jenna mentioned earlier on, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. If there's this one ingredient talking about which things are maybe more negotiable or okay than others. Obviously with Celiac because of the condition, any sort of gluten is an absolute zero tolerance, but if you're vegan and you don't follow it very strictly and you don't mind if there's honey in something, maybe that's something that's negotiable for the one time here at your parents' house. So those sorts of conversations really just open things up and make it easier for everyone, I think.
00:22:23 Andrea
Yeah, totally agree.
00:22:24 Jenna
I think we touched on this a little bit, but if there's anything new you want to highlight I would love to know. Nicole, what is a misconception or myth around plant-based eating that you wish more people knew about? Maybe this is something that has come up as you've been working with students and staff on campus or it's just been in your own personal life.
00:22:45 Nicole
We certainly touched on the, you know, the fact that there's not a one size fits all in that plant-based has so many different variations in it. I think that the all or nothing kind of attitude was certainly more a prominent misconception that I saw a previously.
Only one other one that I’ve seen coming up is the idea that to be plant-based you have to eat the “vegan foods,” right? Whether it's the Beyond Meat or the Beyond Sausage or I've seen plant-based chicken tenders. I've seen plant-based fish out there...there is plant-based versions of everything, and that's absolutely not true. If we go back to before these foods came out, there are a lot of people who eat plant-based and simply include more legumes, more nets, more seeds. All those sorts of wonderful foods for sources of protein and iron, and all the wonderful nutrients that we would normally get from a traditional omnivore diet.
00:23:51 Jenna
I think that brings up another great point with yes, those you know plant-based versions of animal products are delicious, but they are also quite expensive most of the time and I think that's another misconception that people have and it turns them away from plant-based eating. It’s that it can be really expensive. I definitely think that vegan restaurants and vegan take out places sort of perpetuate that stereotype that plant-based eating has to be expensive because they create almost an image out of it and they make it a novelty, but it really doesn't and it can be quite affordable, especially if you are using a lot of legumes and grains and other things like that.
00:24:38 Nicole
Absolutely. So I did a takeover actually with the Sustainability Office. Andrea had me do it last semester and it was highlighting exactly that. So I put together a shopping cart online and I put together a sample one week menu of eating plant-based and there wasn't any Beyond Meat burgers in there. Not to say that you can't enjoy a Beyond Meat burger every once in awhile they are expensive. The cart was very affordable, right? So if you are including whole grains, nuts, seeds, legumes if you're. If you're cooking your chickpeas from scratch even versus a can, you're saving money. But a can of chickpeas is only a dollar, right? So I think there's a lot of wonderful ways to include more plant-based products and still have it be very affordable even when you're thinking about fruits and vegetables. There are seasonal fruits and vegetables throughout the year in Southern Ontario and in the winter time. If you are finding that certain things are hard to get at a good price, there's always the frozen options which are just as nutritious as fresh. It's really about continuing to educate yourself and make those informed decisions. 
All that being said, I don't want to demonise the plant-based analogues or those vegan versions of our traditional foods because I think they do have a place. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the plant-based chicken strips once in a while or the plant-based pepperoni on your pizza. If you enjoy those foods and they fit within your budget, then absolutely enjoy them, but do keep in mind that they are more processed foods, so just as with any more processed foods, we want to kind of make sure that they are not the main staple of our diet.
00:26:27 Andrea
I was just going to highlight that health point because that's something you noted when we asked you to do a review of our food course for the sustainability certificate, something that I need to keep in mind a little bit more. If you're pursuing plant-based eating for health reasons, but then you're relying a lot on some of those more processed options, then you're not necessarily getting all the health benefits you could if you were eating more whole, fresh fruits, veggies, legumes, nuts, and all of those things. So really good points on the health aspect too.
00:27:06 Jenna
Yeah definitely. Even for myself, that's something I keep in mind too. Like I purchase plant-based cheese or cheese substitute I'd say, but just because it's not real dairy, it doesn't mean that I'm piling it on everything I'm being mindful of how much I'm using, not only because it's expensive, but just for the health reasons and that I believe like you know, it's something they should have in moderation, especially with products like that. It's another great point.
00:27:35 Nicole
For sure, and I mean, I think the skills that you get from label reading when you're moving towards plant-based are certainly not lost. You can also read the ingredients on the veggie burgers. There are some veggie burgers out there that have some really great stuff in them so if you're not into making your own black bean and quinoa burgers at home - it seems like it's too much work - there are premade ones that are have quinoa and legumes and black beans. And maybe there's a little more sodium than you would put in at home, but it's certainly a reasonable choice as far as a nutritious option.
00:28:10 Jenna
Definitely, thank you for that. We're getting towards the end of our conversation. I would love to ask one more plant-based question before we get into the wrap up and the housekeeping. For both of you, what are your favourite tips for getting started with plant-based eating or just maintaining a more plant-based lifestyle?
00:28:32 Nicole
I think the biggest tip is just to start small. You know, habits are a series of small manageable changes, that we make. They do not happen overnight. If you want to start building a more plant-based atmosphere, more plant-based routine, just get curious. Try a few new things. Try any recipe and don't put pressure on yourself to do everything all at once.
00:28:58 Jenna
That's a really great point and I was going to say something very similar, so I’ll switch it up. Then I would say don't get discouraged. Maybe if you try a recipe that you don't like, that doesn't mean that eating more plants isn't for you. You probably just need to try something else that fits your palette a little bit better. So I would say just keep experimenting and it's all a fun adventure and a really cool way to find new foods that you that you may love that you just wouldn't have tried before. 
00:29:29 Nicole
For sure.
00:29:32 Andrea
What about you, Jenna?
00:29:34 Jenna
It sort of aligns with what you've both said. First of all, I love that you mentioned habits because I'm just reading a book, something Atomic Habits right now, and so it aligns perfectly with that, I think. For myself, especially as a student, again, you don't have to set large expectations for yourself and you shouldn't go all in at once because it can be really difficult. So again, it's just starting small and finding things that work with your lifestyle. If you don't have a lot of time to meal prep, if you only give yourself a certain amount of time, or you're really busy with school and work, just find things that will work for you and make things that you enjoy. Don't force yourself to eat like let's say some cauliflower dish if you really hate cauliflower, find things that you already enjoying your life and find plant-based versions of them or trying to add in a plant-based ingredient and slowly transition that recipe towards plant-based living. It really doesn't have to be that complicated or that scary or intimidating. You just take those small steps at a time.
00:30:36 Nicole
Yes, I love that and I love that you mentioned that if you hate cauliflower, don't start eating it. You know, like we have to keep in mind that you should be enjoying your food. You want to be making meals that are satisfying to you. You don't want to just be eating, I don't know plain lettuce and cauliflower if you don't like those things.
00:30:55 Jenna
Exactly, I don't know who likes plain lettuce and cauliflower, but I'm sure there are people who do. If you do enjoy it, then eat it. But you know, eat when you love.
00:31:05 Andrea
I'm calling my sister out right now, but her Subway sandwich order used to be just lettuce and cucumber. She loved her veggie sub!
00:31:26
To wrap up Nicole, why don't you share some resources that we can learn more about what you're doing with Food Services and what you are doing on your own as well, and we can share any links or any resources you have in the show notes for this episode.
00:31:37 Nicole
For sure, so our Food Services Instagram channel @UWaterlooFood as well as our website have some great sections where we have some nutrition information, we have some great tips on how to eat well, some meal ideas, recipes, all those sorts of things. So they are great places if you're looking for more information about what's on campus, what's plant-based on campus. You can also contact me directly either over email, which my emails on the Food Services webpage, or by looking on Instagram on @enjoyyourfoodrd. If you're looking for more credible information around some specific questions to do with plant-based eating, for example how do you get enough iron or how do you build a plant-based diet? I would suggest checking out unlockfood.ca. This is a website that is created and managed by Dietitians of Canada so you can be rest assured that all the information is evidence based credible and it's a good place to start. If you're worried about something or you're not sure, it's a great place just to answer some of those curious questions in a way that you know is going to be the right information.
00:32:55 Jenna
I wasn't aware of that website, so I will definitely have to check that out myself, that sounds awesome.
00:32:59 Nicole
Yeah, it's fantastic because it covers pretty much all nutrition topics. It's basic information, but I always find it a good starting point and it's laid out in a way that's really practical. So for example, if you're, looking at iron or Omega-3, it'll list just plant-based foods that have iron in them and how much iron you can get from them. So something like that can be really useful tool.
00:33:23 Andrea
Amazing, super helpful. The Dietitians of Canada, they also have a nap if I'm not mistaken with a bunch of recipes for plant-based eating?
00:33:33 Nicole
Cookspiration. I find that app is sometimes a little bit hard to kind of navigate personally, but it is out there and has really great recipes. Another person to follow for great vegan recipes, there’s this vegan dietitian and her Instagram handle is @nourishedbyCaroline. I can't remember last name. Her first name is Caroline, but she has some really great recipes out there and she's based out of BC.
00:34:00 Jenna
Awesome.
00:34:01 Andrea
I’ll be sure to check that out.
00:34:04 Jenna
Well, thank you so much Nicole and Andrea for coming on the podcast and Nicole for being our first guest! This was an amazing conversation and I think our audience is going to learn a lot about plant-based eating and hopefully be inspired to take some action in their own lives and incorporate more plant-based eating into their lifestyles.
00:34:22 Andrea
Thank you so much, Nicole. This was so fun.
00:34:26 Nicole
Thank you so much for having me.
00:34:28 Jenna
That is all for our conversation with Nicole Pin and Andrea Bale. I hope you enjoyed learning about WAT is plant-based eating. If you did share this episode with your friends, family and peers. Make sure to subscribe to the podcast so you know whenever a new episode is released. That's WAT’s up, Waterloo. Thanks for tuning in and we will see you in the next episode!